aWoD: Continued

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:04 pm

Is there any way to summon up a Troll or a Spriggen? Howl of the Abyss, maybe? What does a Spriggen's power ritual look like?

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:56 am

Transformation (Animalism) is missing power cost and action type
Tumultuous Rain seems like it should cost power points
Enchanted Slumber is missing action type
Dreamstep should cost power points?

Howl of the Abyss needs action type
Swarm Body needs action type and probably point cost
Solid Darkness needs an action type
All the Basic Symphony of Sielcne disciplines are missing action types, as is Planar Discord.

When you say "lightning bolt cannot be dodged," does that mean "to-hit threshold = 0, or just "the dodge action doesn't apply?" If the former, *damn* is it lethal. If the latter, *damn* is it inferior to firestarter.

EDIT: Also, it's more than a little weird that most active sorcery is NOT surpressed by weakening agents. There's no power point cost for shooting fire, so a vampire can do so in broad daylight.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:03 am

Also, backgrounds confuse the fuck out of me.

Academic backgrounds supposedly "dovetail nicely with Research" -- which makes sense; I assume you're supposed to have Research skill AND Biology as a background in order to learn anything from back issues of medical journals. But your dicepool wouldn't be Research+Biology, would it? It would be Research+Logic. So how does the background apply mechanically?

Re: Socializing. It's not clear what a relevant background is. It is meant to be topical or target-based. That is, if I want to convince a politician to give me a grant to do biology research, would I be rolling my Biology background or my Politics background?

Also, it seems that the montage-level questions and so on mostly use social skill numbers. As do enough of the conversational gambits that it seems to me that, a "face" character with high Cha and social skills (and a bonus from Presence) will still dominate almost all social situations, even above characters with high backgrounds.

Finally, what makes Occult backgrounds worth separating out from other backgrounds?

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:05 pm

Orion wrote:I assume you're supposed to have Research skill AND Biology as a background in order to learn anything from back issues of medical journals. But your dicepool wouldn't be Research+Biology, would it? It would be Research+Logic. So how does the background apply mechanically?

I think that "Research" means textual rather than scientific. You might need to make multiple checks, a la skill challenges. One to understand the journal at all, one to fine the piece of information.

[Edit]
Although there's no harm in adding the die pools and adjusting the DC accordingly.
[/Edit]

Orion wrote:Finally, what makes Occult backgrounds worth separating out from other backgrounds?

So people know what they should and shouldn't take depending on the scenario.

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:39 pm

You use an Academic Background to talk to people about the subject. You use Research to look things up.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:06 pm

That's what the existing mechanics imply. BUT the write-up in the skills chapter contrasts Social backgrounds, which are used by "going to go talk to some people" with Academic backgrounds which are used by "going to go look something up."

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:28 pm

I finally finished first pass on the Obligation descriptions. Remarkably much more difficult than the Resources.

Now, on to easier stuff!

-Username17

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:57 pm

Orion wrote:Transformation (Animalism) is missing power cost and action type
Tumultuous Rain seems like it should cost power points
Enchanted Slumber is missing action type
Dreamstep should cost power points?

Howl of the Abyss needs action type
Swarm Body needs action type and probably point cost
Solid Darkness needs an action type
All the Basic Symphony of Sielcne disciplines are missing action types, as is Planar Discord.

When you say "lightning bolt cannot be dodged," does that mean "to-hit threshold = 0, or just "the dodge action doesn't apply?" If the former, *damn* is it lethal. If the latter, *damn* is it inferior to firestarter.

EDIT: Also, it's more than a little weird that most active sorcery is NOT surpressed by weakening agents. There's no power point cost for shooting fire, so a vampire can do so in broad daylight.

Good points. Also: Spriggan and Sidhe have Power Rituals and Master Passions now.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:24 pm

Gelare wrote:EDIT: Also, do we have any teamwork rules? I just thought about it in the context of lots of soldiers searching around a base for the super who got loose, but it's obviously broadly important. Are we going the teamwork hits = central character dice, or what?

Yeah, we're basically using the SR4 Teamwork rules, because they work so much better than the nWoD teamwork rules.

Orion wrote:That's what the existing mechanics imply. BUT the write-up in the skills chapter contrasts Social backgrounds, which are used by "going to go talk to some people" with Academic backgrounds which are used by "going to go look something up."

Hopefully the Research Montage will make that clearer.

-Username17

Judging__Eagle · Post by **Judging__Eagle** » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:54 pm

At some point, someone is going to realize that AWoD is actually: "The Frank Trollman &ec. RPG System".

I mean, everything from diplomacy, to chase scenes, to research montages all being included in the same system. I'm not sure if I've ever heard of an other system that showed how to handle those situations in a balanced manner.

Aside from some new "classes", or using other abilities for a different type of genre type of game; this system is actually pretty universal. If people want one type of tone, or an other, they know exactly what different balance points are, by looking at the number of hits that are needed to acheive a goal, and then increasing, or decreasing the number of hits needed to acheive that goal. Or just removing abilities that don't fit.

The easy removal of special abilities makes me feel as if the game is really a series of modules all interconnected with each other. However, removing or adjusting a module doesn't make the game stop. It just changes the game to have certain things happen more, or less.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:18 am

Reading the writeup of Maya, what's a Jalus, other than the spirit of a someone who died while dreamwalking?

Either the elder power for Animalism, Songs in the Dark, needs to be rewritten or you need to give stats on what a Chimera is.

Chasing the Storm, Victory of Typhon wrote:By spending eight power points, the character can create and direct a “tropical depression” at their location. This requires an hour and a power point.

Do you mean you spend the eight power points and an hour to create it at your location?

If you get four hits on a Howling Winds test, does that mean people need to have a Strength of four to move at normal speed? Or did I miss the rules for this?

If you want to tie someone up, do you follow similar rules to the abduct action? Do you need to even spend extra effort to have Grass Rope fill that function if they abduct someone and the caster stops spending a Complex action?

Doesn't the inherent bonus of the Advanced Veil of Morpheus do the same thing as the actual advanced power, Denial of Privacy?

Names of the Blasphemies, Learn the Heart's Pain; is it truly without resistance or retry limit? Do you even to need to know the target's name, or can you get away with just looking at them (assuming only in person, and not at a photo)?

What happens if someone uses the Doppelganger power on themselves?

Gelare · Post by **Gelare** » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:16 am

Judging__Eagle wrote:At some point, someone is going to realize that AWoD is actually: "The Frank Trollman &ec. RPG System".

Code: Select all

Frank Trollman&#58; The RPG

Wild troll appeared!

Frank used Logic Strike!

Troll is confused!

Frank used String of Expletives!

Troll takes damage!

Frank used "Learn some arithmetic and get back to me, dumbass."

It's super effective!

Troll fainted!

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:57 pm

Either the elder power for Animalism, Songs in the Dark, needs to be rewritten or you need to give stats on what a Chimera is.

Chimera and Kaiju are up.

Doesn't the inherent bonus of the Advanced Veil of Morpheus do the same thing as the actual advanced power, Denial of Privacy?

Denial of Privacy is just a ranged projection of that. I suppose it could have been written "you can use your dream intrusion powers at distant targets" or something, but considering that it could easily be your first Advanced Veil of Morpheus discipline, that seemed pretty weird. I do realize that I didn't give it enough range, but that's fixed now.

What happens if someone uses the Doppelganger power on themselves?

They would create a wicked copy of themselves who wanted to kill them but was generally under their control. Totally worth it!

-Username17

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:13 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:They would create a wicked copy of themselves who wanted to kill them but was generally under their control. Totally worth it!

"You fail me yet again, Doppelscream..."

The Lunatic Fringe · Post by **The Lunatic Fringe** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:10 am

Er, so could you explain the balance-logic behind Doppelganger? It seems like an elder could just sit around casting it (7 power being worth less and less as one becomes more powerful) until they got 6 hits and could then copy another elder, increasing their power far beyond the ability of anything else.

Or am I reading it wrong? Does the mirror from which the doppelganger emerges have to be, at time of casting, reflecting the target?

Thank you in advance.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:10 am

Narcissus wrote:Er, so could you explain the balance-logic behind Doppelganger? It seems like an elder could just sit around casting it (7 power being worth less and less as one becomes more powerful) until they got 6 hits and could then copy another elder, increasing their power far beyond the ability of anything else.

Or am I reading it wrong? Does the mirror from which the doppelganger emerges have to be, at time of casting, reflecting the target?

Thank you in advance.

Not only does the mirror have to be reflecting them at the time, but once the Doppelganger crawls out, neither the Doppelganger nor the original actually casts a reflection until one is dead.

If you're at the stage of making and murdering the doppelganger until you get a full power duplicate of a powerful elder, you could probably be using lower level Dominate to just control the original.

-Username17

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:06 am

Okay, new alpha version of the PDF is up, I'm more pleased with the formatting: http://awod.googlecode.com/files/aWoD%20PDF%200.0.5.pdf.

For clarification: once the following are done, will this be basically "code complete" and ready to switch over to a "Beta" version count?

Clan tells for the following: Khaibit, Mi Go, Reborn, Fallen
Mechanics of clan tells
Fatigue
Nonmagical Healing
Other combat actions?
6 more city writeups

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:37 am

Quantumboost wrote:Okay, new alpha version of the PDF is up, I'm more pleased with the formatting: http://awod.googlecode.com/files/aWoD%20PDF%200.0.5.pdf.

For clarification: once the following are done, will this be basically "code complete" and ready to switch over to a "Beta" version count?

Clan tells for the following: Khaibit, Mi Go, Reborn, Fallen

Mechanics of clan tells

Fatigue

Nonmagical Healing

Other combat actions?

6 more city writeups

Also need:

Weather Rules (in progress)
Skill Descriptions
Carthian Politics discussion (in progress)
Merits & Flaws (mostly a question of cutting the official White Wolf list down)

-Username17

Lokathor · Post by **Lokathor** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:50 pm

What happens if your dice pool is reduced to 0 or less?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:39 pm

Lokathor wrote:What happens if your dice pool is reduced to 0 or less?

You can't do anything awesome. Including fight.

Also: first pass on weather rules is up. There is a lot of wind.

-Username17

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:26 pm

So we played a session a couple of days ago. Some issues came up:

-- Possession: Does a possessed victim get the Edge of the possessor?

--Rising Mists: Can this depower transhumans and witches? If so, how many hits does it take? If so, what's the deal with Verbena?

--What are the dicepools/thresholds for using detection substances (magnets, water, plants)?

--countering magic with salt/sand/seeds is "sorcery that any luminary can learn." Does that means salt thrown by extras has no effect, or what?

EDIT: Also, are/will there be rules for extra-level versions of vamps, leviathans, and the like?

EDIT: Also, the current weakening rules allow a number of supernatural buffs to remain in effect. I assume this is intentional, since you could otherwise have just said that "all disciplines become inactive," but we were wondering about one case in particular.

Since Obfuscate doesn't use power points, a vampire can turn on Hide from Notice inside, then step outside and explore the daytime all invisible until he does something to break it. This gives vamps considerably more daylight freedom than may be appropriate. Similarly, it means fire hoses *won't* reveal invisible witches.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:03 pm

Orion wrote:So we played a session a couple of days ago. Some issues came up:

-- Possession: Does a possessed victim get the Edge of the possessor?

Should, yeah.

--Rising Mists: Can this depower transhumans and witches?

Currently, fog does not "make things wet" in a rules sense. I would probably use the "fine mist" form of rain: if characters don't move (more example: they are asleep), they will gradually become "wet."

--What are the dicepools/thresholds for using detection substances (magnets, water, plants)?

Currently it "just works" but you're right that it should have a dicepool. Will think about it.

--countering magic with salt/sand/seeds is "sorcery that any luminary can learn." Does that means salt thrown by extras has no effect, or what?

Currently, yeah. I genuinely don't want people to run around with a practical (or literal) wedding party full of extras pelting people with rice. It's a horror movie and extras are supposed to die in order to develop the characters of the stars.

EDIT: Also, are/will there be rules for extra-level versions of vamps, leviathans, and the like?

I can't parse this question. What do you mean?

EDIT: Also, the current weakening rules allow a number of supernatural buffs to remain in effect. I assume this is intentional, since you could otherwise have just said that "all disciplines become inactive," but we were wondering about one case in particular.

Pretty much.

Since Obfuscate doesn't use power points, a vampire can turn on Hide from Notice inside, then step outside and explore the daytime all invisible until he does something to break it. This gives vamps considerably more daylight freedom than may be appropriate. Similarly, it means fire hoses *won't* reveal invisible witches.

Crap. I was actually pretty happy with vampires using Hide From Notice to sleep the day away unmolested. But damn it, having the Invisible Man run around in the water because he went invisible earlier is unacceptable. Fuck a duck.

-Username17

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:27 pm

EDIT: Also, are/will there be rules for extra-level versions of vamps, leviathans, and the like?

As it stands, vampires/leviathans/etc are by definition 'luminary', and have an Edge stat. You can have supernatural extras, such as shamblers/soulless (revenants being the luminary version), but are there any for the PC-viable sets? An example would be robots as non-luminary prometheans.

erik · Post by **erik** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:49 pm

virgileso wrote:
EDIT: Also, are/will there be rules for extra-level versions of vamps, leviathans, and the like?
As it stands, vampires/leviathans/etc are by definition 'luminary', and have an Edge stat. You can have supernatural extras, such as shamblers/soulless (revenants being the luminary version), but are there any for the PC-viable sets? An example would be robots as non-luminary prometheans.

Nuh-uh.

Pretty much any supernatural critter has an extra (non-luminary) version.

Vampires are created by another vampire draining the life out of a Luminary and then passing the corpse a power point with Blood Bondage. They can attempt this process with Extras, but the result is always disappointment and the creation of a near mindless Vampire Spawn.

I imagine similar outcomes could be made for most all of the supernatural critters. Lycanthropes become mindless savages more animal than man. Prometheans have no soul or personality, just some driving compulsion that they pursue. Witch extras are pretty much stock cultists. Leviathans, well, here's the quote:

Those born to Leviathan broods who are not luminaries will if they are lucky never betray their leviathan heritage, appearing for all the world as normal humans (though perhaps with a strange bestial cast to their features). These leviathan kin carry Tiamat's taint, and if they have children of their own they may revert to being full leviathans should they be luminaries themselves. Other children are not so lucky, and many of them are pathetic spawn monsters, often with little or no human intelligence. The mutated visages of humanity’s castoffs make ample fodder for nightmares, and little else.

Transhumans are the only ones I recall that didn't have an extra alternative discussed and I have a hard time imagining what an extra of them would be, other than maybe a juicer or some other schmuck who isn't fully or properly transformed and is reliant on substances to attain any useful state.

IGTN · Post by **IGTN** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:01 am

clikml wrote: I imagine similar outcomes could be made for most all of the supernatural critters. Lycanthropes become mindless savages more animal than man.

Lycanthrope extras become corpses. You become a lycanthrope by spending Edge to make a lycan mauling not kill you and instead only leave you half-dead, so any attempt to turn an extra into a lycanthrope results in a corpse.